Interview with U.s. Women’s Activist

Published by Reigocrest for The Plough, 38 Clanawly Road, Dublin 5, and printed by F.I, Litho (T.U.) Ltd., 182 Pentonville Road, London N.1, to prevent this development from going beyond minimal demands.” In face of this expansion, ‘women will have to be given a certain amount of freedom for their biological functions, so certain liberal-reforms in the areas of family planning (i.e. contraception) are a certainty. But such facilities will-be limited, and it may be some time before they appear.

As for creches, that depends on the individual employer, on the type of industry concerned, the number of women employed and of course its effects on the surplus product — the profits! ~ Experience has shown that unless these reforms are defined clearly and reinforced by state legislation, the employers will find all kinds of loopholes and manoeuvres they can nse to avoid the full implementation of the “proposals.

MANOEUVRES It would of course be extremely naive to believe that even with legislation the implementation of equal pay laws would be effected. Already, the dangers that could ensue have been stressed both in the report and by the Women’s Advisory Committee of the Irish Congress of Trades Unions: In the United States, for example, ‘equal pay’ laws have been in existence for ten years, but women have been classified as ‘suitable for certain jobs.’ In REVOLUTIONARY MARXIST GROUP (Irish supporters of the Fourth International)

38 Clanawly Road, DUBLIN 5 ! would like more information about the RMG and its activities.

Onn CUS eDenacerenonedoeestenesescceasoneveoneseaeoees SHOR CO RCO Oe ORE ens as eee seseesEsbesseresecosonsoesesesees enecnenes The Plough June 1973 Page 8 Susan Lamont isa national organiser with the Women’s National Abortion Action Coalition (WONAAC) in the USA, and a member of the Socialist Workers Party (in solidarity with the Fourth International). She is currently on a 10-week tour of Europe, and while in Ireland gave this exclusive interview to The Plough.

— In the United States, in France, in Belgium, in Italy, there have been mass mobilizations on the question of abortion in the past few months. Why do you think that this question has come to the fore so suddenly?

This fact springs from the feeling that women must contro! their own bodies, as a necessary precondition to total liberation. Theabortion question has been a focal point for women’s liberation movements in all the countries where they have arisen.

— Many people consider the foetus to be a human being and hold abortion to be murder. How would you answer such objections?

Well, our attitude in WONAAC is that the argument that a foetus is a human being is a. philosophical and religious one, held only by some people who are a minority in the world. Indeed they are entitled to hold such an opinion. However, our point is, that particular religious and philosophical - views should not be codified as law. This is of particular importance in relation to the Catholic Church, where such a view is identical to their own position on this question, although people who are not Catholics also hold'this view. It is a fundamental question of a Democratic Right, as is also the question of the separation of Church and State. We feel it is incorrect to legislate ‘morality’ and the women’s movement has always been the one that has stood on the side of religious freedom. However, it is they, who don’t hold that a foetus is a human being, whose religious and moral freedom has been violated. If others believe that a foetus is a human being, then. logically they should not have an abortion. Our - point is that they should not prevent those who think differently from having them. — As you discovered on the Liam Nolan radio programme, some people argue apart from retigious and philosophical views, that scientifically spaaking, the foetus is a human being. in your experience, do you think there is any basis for such a belief?

The question of when life begins is something which has been in dispute for thousands of years. There is no agreement between the scientific and medical communities on this question, It remains a very materialist view of the world.

been their role in your experience? Bible. tion? abstract. question, In the US, for example, the majority of doctors and scientists engaged in this field, do not agree with the belief that-life begins at the moment of conception. This question will be debated time and time again perhaps until we have a socialist society where people will be educated to a — One of the leading anti-abortion forces throughout the world is the Roman Catholic Church. What has The Catholic Church has been in the forefront of this movement,in the States known as the ‘Right to Life’ movement, They financed, organised and mobilized _ this movement which in some areas has become quite powerful. When the first liberal law on abortion was. passed in New York in 1970, they began to organise @ national movement to prevent any further liberalisation of the laws, and to roll back the law already passed. As.abortion became a more central political issue, they began to gain more momentum as so also did the Abortion Rights movement. They organised mass demonstrations, had mass-leafletting, etc. They played a very pernicious role and even succeeded in having the New York laws repealed. These were only saved by the veto of the New York governor. It’s not correct simply to dismiss this movement as a fanatical lunatic, fringe movement. In reality, they were able to play on the deep confusion and profound prejudices which existed around this question. We would have to say, however, that they became a shrinking minority as our demonstrations and our educational materialbegan to reach wider layers of people. One point that should be stressed, in our opinion, is that this so-called concern for the unborn-foetus isnot the underlying motivation for the movement. In reality we believe they are trying to prevent the growth of the Women’s Liberation movement. This has been borne‘out, by their shifting of forces against the Equal Rights Amendment Bill, They say that the reason they are against the Bill is because ‘women are not equal’ and use ample quotations — from the — Apart from the Church, there are many other vested interests. Nixon, for example, declared society. publicly against abortion. Why do you think that so many sections of capitalist society are against aborpapers.

The situation is now, that the Supreme Court has made a decision that all states must_supply any woman with'an abortion up to the sixth month of pregnancy, and even after the sixth month if the physical or mental health of that woman is in danger.

Now of course, when the Supreme Court makes a ~ decision, even though it applies to all the States, it each State torewrite its laws, etc. This is one danger that WOMAAC is very aware of. We demand that those right-wing legislators and those hospital authorities who morally disagree with abortion should be made to implement these laws.

One thing that the Supreme Court decision very clearly verifies is the /mpact of the women’s movement and the Abortion Rights movement on American society. A myth has existed for a long time, that the Supreme Court convenes somewhere on Mount Olympus, and is not subject to social pressures. If this were the case, such a decision would not have been made. The very wording of the new laws as expressing a ‘woman's right to choose’ clearly shows the impact of the mass sentiment that exists around the women’s movement.

One of the keystones of women’s oppression and one of the main vehicles used to° maintain women in the role of wife, mother, housekeeper, etc, has been the use of women as breeders — by denying them the Right to cantrol their own bodies. This aspect has been for hundreds of years codified as law through the illegality of abortion and of contraception. The government has a very, clear stake in the abortion -issue, the laws have only been changed subject to mass pressure. Nixon, for example, as you said, came out.against abortion, as it denied the ‘sanctity of life.’ This from a man responsible for the mass bombings of the Vietnamese people! — Susan, you are now on an international tour. You're quite familiar with the conditions of women internationally. From your stay in ireland, how would you rate the situation of Irish women?

| have travelled extensively, and it seems to me . that Irish women are among the most oppressed sections of women in the advanced capitalist countries of Europe. The standard here even falls below those of Spain and Italy. Definitely Irish women are among the most down-trodden layers of Irish society, which in effect renders them among the po tentially revolutionary and explosive layers of trish Some local branches-ef the RMG also publish AVAILABLE: Limerick—from sellers;

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