Interview with ... Gerry Foley Editor of

GERRY FOLEY, the editor of (rtemational Viewpoint, a fortnightly naws review published! und:

@ the auspices of the Fourth International, recen ty Visited Ireland. He gave the following Interview to John Meehan about the Politica! crisis in Poland.

SA > Recently martial law fas been (ited In Palarc, ff looks Kier a very formal move, Mfou/d you see 2 Goralie! between phe nny egislation and eo called ‘amargency legidation” it Inala 7 GF: In a very general sense the two situations are similar. No repressive state can fest on force alone, Politic al deception, and the abslity to win at least the resignation of a substantial section of the population, it essentfal alee. Any dictatorship will rrigkon meres bo try anal legitimise itsef, tt will try to reassure sections of the Population that it rules on the basis of law, When intemment was withdraven in the North of ireland duriewg the mid "70s the Pepressive gYEtEM wad mache mor selective and effective, But many people had big illof the H Block campaign ar the hunger pirces to destroy en wae much broader and table got knocked off by 7 months. That indicates how difficult they found it to even carry outa formal manoeuvres, They feared that a lower level of fntimdation might stimulate Opposition rather than Make people more ready te tolerate the totalltarian sy ate.

We could publish the transcipt because Solidarnosc people got ahold of it, which shows they were paroof a mes mewverent with people in every watk of life in Polish secenty, The transcript was published in the underground press so ihe intentions of the govamniment are quite well known, | dowbt [F the lifting of martial law vill be an effective boost for the Jarucelski regime.

SA: The Pope's recent trip fo Poland exposed the contradictions of the CathOe Aferarchy's policy, Onervatore Romano, the Vatican's official mawsPaper, wad oblieod to cack Father Virgilio Lew! far augpgesting that Lech Walesa and Salicdarnose Stroud be ahandomd, What coer he represent?

GF: tt is cheer that he Peflects the Catholic Church § point of wiew on the situation in Poland. The beale orientation is to manOtuvre with the regime, to try ad get some kind of a the Church makes a poltical mistake it can be devastating In a very short perod of time, That's not like |raland, where the Chureh has set its face mMainst the mas movement thme after time in the most scandalous way wel thout suffering major damage. oA: Now have the Communit Parties been affected by fhe riz of Solidarmosc?

GFr The repression In Paland today, brutal as it is, is pretty emall petetoes com pared with the USSR in the 1830's uncer Stalin; hundfads of thousands, maybe millions of people killeed, the show trials- that type Of thing is not hapnening today In Eastern Europe.

In the (S:3's the circurnstaNGes Were exceptional, Tha international workers’ move ment did not understand the qualitative change in the Bolshevik party after the death of Lenin, the Stalin regime continued to have sone of the aura of the Aussian Revolution, and it was felt that the Stellin regire wee mot as bad as the Nazis. Progressive opinien and the international worker movement tended to look the other way if they maw Stalin's crimes, Since thon there is much broader understanding about the repressive side of Stalinism. Even the most pre-Moseoye Communist parties in Wastem Europe find it hard to defend Stalinet repression in Poland. In aH the anti-bureaucratic political nevolu trots. sirvop the East Berlin uprisings of B53 the Communit Parties howe been hit very hard. The crashing of the Cochoolovakian Prague Spring in Auguet S68 drove daep unhealed wounds into the GP's.

A Tew mass movment, or ayan a more bloody crushIng oth, or a politics revolution, would be a definitive disaster for the international Stalinist noavement, |t would damage ‘the big Western European Gommnist Parties in France, Italy, Portugal and Spain and weld aloo weaken tha leqgriimacy of the burtaur cracy in tha Soviet Union itself The impact on the CP's waamuch oreater during the rise of Solidarity Now it's more like aTurning sore. i Take for example - Canacha, The Iday Day demonstrat lone are supportad by the trades union mavenent in general but are Groaned by the CP, On the last May Dey they tried to excluca a ProSalidarity contingent fram the demonstration, That caused a tremondous Golitical scandal, That weakened the CP's position in the labour movement.

SA: De Palieh workers sea links between their stnugyfos and the frie ational mower?

GF: Thero.wes-a very strong strong identification with the hunger sirnike in Poland -that wes the period when Solidarnose wes legal. Many young poople developed # fadinal weraion of traditional Podish nationalism, | wat asked for books about Ireland wherever | went, Bobby Sanda’ prison diaries were in big demand. | spoke to a national convention of eormmittess for thee releese of political prisoners in Poland about the hunger atikers. Pwes asked todo that by the organisers of the Convention, What | said in support of the hunger strlkBPs Was very well received, SAY How wioleoarad ie the Fount) fatematfonal’s (Ff)

Araction solidarity wark?

Has ft beer confined na Hestern Europe?

GF: The Fourth Intemational (Fl) has done alot of solidarity work on = 2 News analysis, important documents and information on the world workers movement SUBSCRIPTION RATES :

Sterling - G months £9 (OSPF), | pear £46 (175 FF) Purigs -Gomonis £4 I year CAF Poyrtert jit french francs ff possitle, Personal cheques to PEC and matitor fV, 2e Rickard Lenoir, 93108, Monireut! France, Poste orden fa PEC, COP Accent no, 2-322427 Paris, Bank fone fo REC, GNP Bobeoierne, (ore ae Paris. SSF Montreal Frace, ALSO AVAILABLE FROM Dublin - 38 Clanawley Road, Dublin Belfast - Horigon Bookshop, Avera Park, Anderonstown Just Books, 5 Winetavern Street, Poland. | ween Fane when martial law was declarad on December 13 198i, The Frenne section of the Fl, The Ligue Communtiste Revolutionnaire (LOCA)

played avery prominent rele in all of the'demonsirations supporting Solidarnose. They concentrated on buikding support inside The French trades union:

movement For the first time oppodition developed inside the CP led union, the OST (Ganeral Confederation of Labour) against the line of the leadership, This, to some extent, retlectad the LOR" sucess in devaloping an inftuence in the trades unica movement, Before the outlawing of Solidamoasc the Fl in Europe played a large role in sending trades union amd profesional delegations to Poland, The Fi s rote became quite well knewn lin Polaried, Ve began publication of a journal in Polish + Imprekor = around the martial law, Thit has bear circulated clandestinely.

It la widely enough known to be a factor in the polit:

ical debates within Solidarnese.

For the first time thane have been significant struggles against Stalinist repression inside Thind World courntrias Remember that democracy is often “here today, gone tomerrow’ in the poorer regions of ihe werd. The pressure of hunger and sbeclute deprivation is sa Strang that people haw tendod net to feel a great deal of sympathy with ethers who are just denied chamocratic Nght? it-the burauchatised workers’ states. That's unclear stendable but marrow. It is important to overcorry it. The Mexiran section of the Fl the PRT | Aevolutionary Workers’ Party) played a leading role in the demonstr#ions supporting Solidamcad. The meost significant demonstrations in supeart of the Polish workers outside The advanced cepitalst Bourn thes ocurred in Latin America, A fortnightly journal of world politics |